>> JENNIFER
     There is a learner guide that's been created for you to extend your learning on the topic.

     The learner guide is a great tool to bring your learning to the team.

     

     This can be customized.

     It is intended for your purposes.

     There are a number of questions in here.

     Some we'll address today as we move through the session.

     And it is an excellent resource for you to extend your learning.

     I always think about folks coming to a webinar, the fire hose of learning happens.

     We turn around and go right back to work.

     So hopefully this guide will help you apply some of the great learning that you see today here.

     I'm thrilled to welcome our presenters for today.

     David Hurley is the associate professor and discovery and web librarian at university libraries at the university of New Mexico of Of New Mexico.

     Sarah Kostelecky also.

     I'll let you say your last name so we get it right.

     >> SARAH: It's Kostelecky.

     >> HOST: Welcome.

     And Lori Townsend is professor, assessment coordinator and learning services librarian also at the university libraries at the University of New Mexico New Mexico we're so thrilled to have you here.

     They have done amazing work editing a book on Cultural Humility.

     This topic is super important to me as a lifelong learner and someone who has lived in many different cultures.

     So I really appreciate you bringing this important work to libraries.

     Welcome.

     And I'm going to have David get us started.

     Welcome.

     >> DAVID: Thanks.

     I'm actually going to let Sarah get us started.

     >> HOST: 

     >> SARAH: I'm going to start us with greeting and my own language.

      --

     So I said "hello, and good afternoon everyone.

     If you are in afternoon.

     As we are.

     I also said thank you for coming to hear our talk.

     Or the little translation so hear our words.

     That was in my Zuni language.

     And the land acknowledgment here.

     Founded in 1889, the University of New Mexico New Mexico sits on the traditional homelands of the pueblo of sandia.

     The original peoples Of New Mexico New Mexico, pueblo, Navajo and Apache, since time immemorial have --.

     We honor the land itself and those who remain stewards of this land throughout the generations and also acknowledge our committed relationship to indigenous peoples.

     We gratefully recognize our history.

     So thanks everyone for coming.

     Again, I'm Sarah Kostelecky.

     And I am an associate professor at University of New Mexico, college of --.

     I'm an leave right now and currently serving as program specialist, indigenous peoples at the library of Congress.

     Lori and David if you want to introduce yourselves more?

     Or not.

     

     >> LORI: We both -- well Sarah doesn't work at U of M at the moment but David does.

     >> DAVID: I'm David Hurley.

     Also discovery web librarian.

     Thank you all for coming and joining us today.

     We're excited to talk about our ideas and excited to hear your ideas about Cultural Humility and maybe ways that you have been using it.

     If you have been.

     And so looking forward to seeing that in the chat.

     This is where we're going.

     Wear going to start wan overview of Cultural Humility.

     Then look at some of the key elements of humility and culture.

     And then explore Cultural Humility in practice.

     

     That is where we're going but first...

     >> LORI: We want to start with an exercise to get us thinking about an important element of cultural humility.

     So we're going stalk a little about curtains.

     One day I was complaining to Sarah and David after visiting my in-laws about how uncomfortable their house made me feel.

     They lived in a beautiful custom mid century modern house with an entire wall of Windows facing the street.

     This is not their house by the way.

     This is actually a restaurant built in a mid century modern house.

     But they had no curtains in their Windows.

     Much like this house.

     I also whine ad bit about how my house doesn't feel the need to close curtains at night.

     So if he's home before he, I'm come home to the house lit up and all of the curtains for what feels to me the entire neighborhood to see.

     And his attitude is that if people are looking in the windows from outside and they see something they don't want to see, that is on them.

     So this makes me very uncomfortable.

     And I like to go around the house as the sun is setting and close up all the curtains.

     And what is funny is that Sarah and David both live in similarly divided households.

     And we're all on the same side, which is even weirder.

     We all tend to like to close things up.

     And our partners are like, you know, let the light in.

     Or let the night in?

     I guess.

     They like to open things up.

     So you can probably think of something that someone you are close to does that is different than the way you do things.

     Right?

     Or to put it another way, something that they just do wrong.

     Right?

     And this can be a spouse, your children, inlaws, your parents...

     So what we ask you to do is to think of something like that.

     Think of some situation where you can think of something you just do really fundamentally differently.

     And then to think about these questions.

     So think of a situation like that.

     And what was your first reaction on finding out they did it this way?

     And how has it impacted you?

     Did you have to adjust your behavior or ideas about this?

     And how did that adjustment go?

     Are we giving them a little time to think about this?

     Like a few seconds?

     Sarah, David?

     

     >> SARAH: I think we -- sure.

     Yeah.

     >> DAVID: Sounds like we are.

     >> LORI: Just a little time.

     We want to stay on time.

     We don't want to waste your time.

     Just a couple of seconds.

     You can actually -- oh here we go.

     I love it.

     People are already sharing in the chat.

     So you can actually share.

     If you like.

     This is obviously very personal so you don't have to.

     But if you want to.

     Sarah these are great.

     Yes, taking off shoes inside the house.

     I think that is a big cultural thing.

     Protestant catholic outlook on privacy.

     That's interesting.

     Leaving the door unlocked.

     How you squeeze the toothpaste.

     

     I love these.

     These are great.

     So all right.

     So let's see.

     So for our example of closing curtains, thank you for sharing.

     And you can keep sharing.

     We all know each of our partners has their own routines, ways of doing things.

     And we've generally come to, sort of, a compromise on this.

     I know we keep some windows curtainless all night.

     And that's fine with me.

     And this probably seems like a silly thing.

     And it kind of is.

     But it also illustrates in a small way that what is normal to us as individuals is not necessarily a norm for others.

     Our norms can be about things like curtains which is, you know, kind of intimate but also relatively trivial.

     Or it could be about something bigger or more important, which concerns our world view or our closely-held values.

     So with that introduction -- and thank you for your participation.

     We're going start digging into cultural humility.

     And hopefully you will see how this somewhat silly example applies.

     

     >> DAVID: Yeah.

     So what is cultural humility?

     At its most basic?

     We see it as an approach to making change.

     To see where change is needed.

     And then to make those changes to improve services, to improve our workplaces, to improve our relationships.

     And just to be up front.

     It is not a magic bullet.

     We aren't going to solve libraries this afternoon.

     And we also recognize it is not the only approach to making change.

     But we do think it is good way of interacting with the world.

     It is one that can reduce harm.

     One that can make things better.

     And there are many ways that Cultural Humility can look in practice.

     So as we talk about what Cultural Humility is and how it might be put into practice by different people across different library contexts, we're going to weave in stories from others.

     Particularly from this book.  "Hopefully visions, practical actions:  Cultural humility in library work "that we edited.

     

     And then I should also mention this special report that we wrote.

     This is where we go into some depth on our ideas of cultural humility that we're drawing on today as well.

     And those are available at fine libraries everywhere.

     

     So challenge the status quo.

     But first you have to see it.

     I mentioned part of the goal is to be able to see where the changes are needed.

     And it can be hard to see problems that don't impact you directly.

     Right?

     It is not a problem for you.

     You may not see it then.

     So being able to see from other perspectives is very important.

     Right?

     And part of that is as we were talking about with the curtains, to be able to recognize that what you think of as normal isn't intrinsically or objectively more normal than what anyone else thinks of as normal.

     So and that is where we started, right?

     Having you think of someone or some people you care about that do things differently than the way you do.

     But it is really easy to frame these differences as being less normal.

     Right?

     And we do that on purpose.

     Asking you to think about something people do wrong.

     But you hear that lot.

     Right?

     People say things like in England, people drive on the wrong side of the road.

     Or in South America, Summer and winter are backwards.

     Or sometimes "I don't have a culture.

     I'm just white."

     And in these each of these cases, that way of saying things is setting the speaker up that their normal is the normal.

     That their experience is at the center and everything sells a variation.

     We say plain vanilla.

     But we never say plain pistachio.

     Even though both are flavorings that get added to cream and sugar to make ice cream.

     And this habit of setting up your normal as "normal" can be a really hard habit to break.

     So this idea of decentering yourself is another key part of practicing Cultural Humility.

     And I want to emphasize that decentering yourself does mean devaluing yourself.

     Just because it is totally fine that people in England drive on the left side, doesn't make it wrong that people in the U.S. drive on the right.

     And as an aside on this slide...   this famous photo of the earth.

     This is the way it actually was developed from the camera when it was taken.

     But NASA flipped it.

     Because usually the way our globes are oriented, Antarctica is on the bottom.

     And even knowing it doesn't make anymore sense to say one side of a ball floating in space is the top and the other is the bottom.

     It is really hard not to think of this image as being upside down.

     And when I found this image and talking about the history of the image and how it was flipped and so on.

     On the page it was talking this is the actual original orientation.

     The file name was blue marble clipped.jpeg or something like that.

     So it is a hard habit to break.

     Back to the British.

     I use the example of driving in England because it is easy to see there is no inherently better side to drive on.

     And it is easy to see also what the consequences would be if you don't follow that norm.

     Whether you are driving in England or even if you are just kind of looking for traffic before stepping into the street.

     

     But it isn't realistic to think that you will know all of the different ways that all of the different people you encounter are different.

     And I think that is especially true in libraries where our doors are open and people are coming in.

     So instead, cultural humility asks us to recognize that the person in front of us is different from us in ways that we don't know.

     And maybe in ways that can't really be readily explained.

     And yet these differences can still be very important to the interaction.

     And we might think of these differences in terms of race or religion or national origin.

     But it can also be just as important between people who are members of the same cultural group.

     And in fact, there is a chapter in our book by Rhiannon Sorrell.

     She's a Navajo librarian working on the Navajo nation.

     At a college that is 97% Navajo.

     And even there she finds cultural humility is a useful approach to bring to her work.

     So, we've been focusing on this idea of "normal" and why is this so important?

     One of the key ideas in cultural humility is that if you rely on your own ideas of what is normal to interpret situations or other people's action, you are going to misunderstand their motives, their goals and also the barriers they face.

     And if you plan, provide or evaluate your services based on those assumptions, it is going to be problematic.

     You will create structures that don't fit the reality that you didn't see.

     So in the photo, this egg carton is for large eggs.

     And it works fine for large chicken eggs.

     But you could imagine what would happen to the pea hen eggs if we closed the curtain.

     In our book...   I think...   here we go.

     In our book Carrie Valdez is now the library director at the public library in Mo ab Utah.

     And she shares a story from earlier in her career where she was working the desk, when a woman come in with three young kids.

     Wanted to get them library cards.

     Long story short,.

     The woman was the step mom.

     And the kids had old library accounts with long overview books in hundreds of dollars in fines and fees.

     The biological mother who had the books was in jail.

     So those books weren't coming back.

     The step mom document or wouldn't pay hundreds of dollars for fines and fees for books she'd never seen.

     So the kids could get library cards.

     And maybe this seems fair from the library perspective.

     Accounts had fines on them.

     Can't use the library until clearing the account.

     This all sounds reasonable.

     But we know how families actually work.

     Stepparents and foster syllables and exstepparents and guardians and grandparents and custody battles.

     But this policy assumed one kind of family.

     One where there are two probably married parents who are responsible for their children.

     And that is an implicit assumption in the policy.

     It doesn't say it anywhere.

     But you see it in the outcome for kids whose families aren't that way.

     A policy that was intended to make parents responsible for their children created a situation where the children were essentially held responsible for their parents.

     And that seems pretty unfair from the kids' perspective.

     So the library didn't get its books back.

     The -- didn't get paid.

     The kids didn't get the library card.

     So it is a lose-lose situation.

     Can the story has a postscript.

     Decades later, when she was the director, Carrie had to call the police, as sometimes happens in library work.

     And the officer who responded told her how much his mom hated the library.

     How they had gone there as kids to get library cards but the librarians with were really mean and they all left in tears.

     And all three of those kids now had kids of their own and none had ever stepped foot in the library.

     So it is generations of.

     A lose, lose, lose, I don't know how many the situation.

     When the people making the policies embed their norms into those policies, it creates structures that can negatively impact groups for whom those norms don't apply.

     And Carrie's chapter then outlines her process as director with her staff of revisiting all of her library's policies and services thinking about what is actually the mission of the library?

     What are we trying to do here?

     And what barriers do the library services, is the library creating for the people it serves?

     And there are two more things we can talk about from that story.

     Context and power.

     And we're going to go into these in a bit more depth later.

     But for now, let's start with recognizing that context matters.

     Meaning that what happens in the library isn't just what is happening in the library.

     People have things going on in their lives.

     There are things going on in the world and that is true for patrons, for staff, for everyone.

     And sometimes you know the context.

     Right?

     When the police officer comes in and tells Carrie that story.

     He's giving her the context of his relationship to the library.

     And that she remembered herself and her role in it, gives her an even fuller understanding of what happened.

     But he probably only gave that context because he was there as a police officer in his own professional capacity being called in to help.

     She doesn't write about this.

     But I would bet that if one of his siblings had taken their kids @library they wouldn't have walked up to the desk and say hey, last time I was in here I was a little kid dealing with a lot of family stuff and you made my mom cry.

     But that context has impact.

     In this case the impact was they didn't come in.

     So in some cases in the U.S., you have people bringing their grand kids into the libraries they weren't allowed anyway to themselves when they were kids because of their race.

     Or people coming into story times that was a treasured memory.

     Or things unrelated.

     I once had a guy getting his first grader little boy a library card.

     And I took his I.D. and said let me check your record.

     And his body language changed so dramatically.

     He closed up.

     Went on high alert.

     Even I was able to put two and two together.

     Quickly explained that I was checking his library record to see if he had overdue books.

     And from then on I always used the word "account."  I'm going check your library account, instead of record.

     So context.

     And the other one is power.

     Cultural humility was first proposed in the context of health care.

     With a very clear power differentials between doctors and patients.

     And if doctors don't account for them they may miss important information leading to worse outcomes for patients and that is very well-documented in medicine.

     It is true in libraries too.

     Power is more complicated in our settles.

     When Carrie was at the circuit desk.

     S she was in a position of power and wielding the institutional power of the library when she wouldn't let the kids get cards.

     And she may have felt powerless herself in that situation because she didn't make the policy.

     It was just her job to enforce it.

     And even as director you might feel powerless because of the laws or the city policy or the established practice in your library or whatever.

     When I was new at U of M.

     The then dean of libraries said in a meeting, "deans just have no power in this institution."  And he's saying that to a room of junior librarian, each of us three or four levels below him in the hierarchy.

     I think it is easier for us to see the limits of where we have power.

     Ands thesesser to see where other people do scr power, especially if that is power that impacts us.

     To all of this ties back to the discussion of norms and perspectives.

     The more the power structures favor your perspective, the more invisible they are to you and the harders it is to see any negative impacts they might be having on others.

     So part of a practice of Cultural Humility is to actively be aware there may be important context that you don't know.

     So practicing cultural humility means listening.

     It means working to be aware of ways that context and power can impact an interaction.

     It means listening to people in the way they want to be heard even if that challenges our assumptions or doesn't match our perspective.

     And it isn't easy to think about how things you aren't aware of might be influencing an interaction.

     Because by definition you aren't aware of them.

     So one way is to start to reflect on a time when the context mattered to you.

     And to think about how the other person may or may not have been able to pick up on it.

     And this is something you can do on your own.

     You can do in 2K3WR5 groups and share stories.

     

     You can post it in the chat enl.

     What I want you to do is think about something where the context mattered to you.

     And I'll give my own example.

     It doesn't have to be anything big or super important.

     In my example I'm going use a library example.

     But it doesn't have to be library.

     It can be anything.

     So years ago, before audible.com and our streaming services, my mother was complaining about the price of audio books on CD.

     I told her oh I bet the public library would have them.

     And her response was "librarians are so difficult to deal with."

     So it was in fact make maybe a little rebellious of me to become a librarian.

     For all of you who are parents, may your -- may their rebellions be similarly tame.

     But this was my chance to convert her.

     Next time out visiting we go into her local library.

     Which is very nice.

     With have a look around a bit.

     And I find audio books on tape but not CD.

     So I go up to the desk and I say, I see you have a collection of books on tape.

     Do you also have audio books on CD.

     And the person behind the desk says, yes.

     

     ...

     And we stare at each other for a few moments.

     And I can feel my mothers "told you so" emanating out from next otome.

     And I say well, thank you very much.

     And we walk out the door.

     Now, I think if they had known the context, most library people would have taken the opportunity to highlight how great the library is.

     You know, if there is something you want that isn't in our collection we can check to're if other branches have it.

     That sort of thing.

     And I felt like I was trying to communicate we're new here.

     We need some salesman ship by being kind of exaggeratedly friendly and polite rather than just where are the audio books.

     But the librarian maybe thought well, this very hairy individual is behaving kind of strangely.

     Yellow alert.

     Or more likely even, they were trying to match my friendliness and sort of picking up on my personality and responding with, you know, this sort of straight-faced humor of just answering the literal question I asked.

     And that is actually something I would find funny, actually appreciate it on most days.

     Just not on that day.

     So think of a story like that.

     Think about in what way did the context impact the interaction or the outcome or the expectation.

     How might it have gone differently if the other person had known the context?

     And how might they have become aware of the context?

      .8.

     This is also a good time to take a moment and see if there are questions before we get into cultural and humanity.

     

     

     >> HOST: I will continue to collect your questions.

     If you have specific questions, feel free to post them to chat.

     If you are uncomfortable to post them to chat, you can post directly to me.

     And I can bring them to the panel.

     But let's continue on.

     And we'll check back in a little later on the other questions.

     

     >> LORI: You may have heard the term cultural competence before.

     But as a phrase, cultural humility might be mysterious.

     Before we get into the practice of cultural humility, although David I did kneel talked a fair amount about that.

     We're going consider these two elements of culture and humility.

     The idea of culture.

     What is it when someone says the word "culture"?

     You might first think of things that represent a culture different from you're own.

     Maybe something that seems foreign.

     And sometimes the way culture is talked about in other approaches like cultural competence, can really reinforce this idea.

     Because the focus is on people who are citizens of different nations.

     Or might be members of minorityized populations in the United States.

     Or you might of think what we call high culture.

     That concerns certain parts of culture in the United States that have often been associated with a high income.

     However when we are talk about "culture" here, what we mean is culture is what people do.

     In our current example T tendency to keep curtains open or closed at night would be an element of culture.

     Perhaps not a super important one but still a cultural trait.

     This perspective on culture does leave some things out but it is helpfully inclusive and a useful starting place.

     Because it doesn't place any particular value on any aspect or type of culture.

     To expand our definition of culture a bit.

     Culture is what people think, what people do, and what people make.

     And is shared, learned, transmitted, cross-generationally, symbolic, adaptive and integrated.

     This establishes culture as something of importance that we do in groups, and gives a name to some of the different ways it can manifest in our lives.

     Culture is important and pervasive.

     Our current example isn't meant to diminish the importance of culture in our lives.

     But only to emphasize its you you ubiquity.

     Culture is always changing.

     This may not be obvious to outsiderrers, but it is happening all of the time.

     Of course you can clearly see here in this slide that public forms of dress used to be much more formal in the past than in the modern era.

     And definitely poking a bit of fun here.

     Because it does appear that dressing cats up in clothes is somehow a persistent cultural trait over the years.

     And finally, we want to highlight the idea of personal culture.

     Culture is not a monolith.

     Because it is practiced by a bunch of individuals who are members of a culture.

     Therefore we like to think of this idea of personal culture which refers to an individual's personal expression of their heritage and culture.

     As an outsider we might learn about a given culture.

     But we won't know how a member of that culture chooses to express their culture unless we pay careful attention to them.

     Cultural humility asks us to keep ourselves open to hearing from the individual who is in front of us as to their personal culture.

     So another example from the book, Cultural Humility, getting past approachability, what cultural humility brings to library and information education."  Written by Lilliana Montoya and Sarah Polkinghorne.

     A student and instructor from a class.

     And they began by thinking about how librarians learn to interact with people in a professional way.

     And apparently this leads to this idea of the concept of approachability.

     As it is taught to library school students.

     To the new librarian, approachability is framed as this sort of crucial make or break moment in the reference interaction.

     And advice given includes to make eye contact or a smile goes a long way.

     But a problem with approachability is that it is "it is not just about what we do and how we are, but how we are perceived."

     The authors point out that most of the advice around approachability skip oversight the issue of, "what it means to be perceived as approachable by patrons."  And it ignores more objectable criteria in the interaction such as visibility.

     They argue that incorporating cultural humility into our teaching for new librarians about reference interactions can serve as the beginning of an ongoing practice of reflecting on their own positionality and the partiality of their expertise.

     This awareness of partial expertise is one of the most powerful points Lilliana and Sarah make.

     They point out it is essential to engage with the user with an interpersonal stance of humility and openness, rather than from a superior role as the expert.

     We can determine what is important to them.

     We can work on power imbalances and motivate them to feel they are equal participants in the interaction.

     So now that weave explored this concept of cultural and reflected on the change in culture of librarianship.

     Let's take a look at humility.

     Al so in common parlance, the word "humility" has some negative associations and connotations.

     Low status, low self worth.

     Low self-esteem.

     The underestimations of one's value.

     But the field of psychology has a different take.

     So I'll explore from that perspective for a bit.

     Humility in their conception is a personal trait we possess as individuals.

     And according to June -- there are several dimensions of humility she describes as a "neglected virtue."  And wrote this seminal article on humility about 20 years ago.

     Humility as defined.

     means admitting we aren't perfect.

     Acknowledging ones mistakes.

      -- just that we are human.

     Humble are open to new ideas and information.

     Including irreconcilable or conflicting information.

     This orchtion allows the humble to continue learning and building new knowledge throughout their lives.

     Being open to learning new stuff means we also have to be open to being mistaken in our current understandings.

     Humility also involves a sense of perspective.

     Those with perspective to quote her, can keep their abilities and accomplishments or place in the world in perspective.

     I.e., seeing one self as just one person in the larger scheme of things.

     This means that we acknowledge we have both talents and faults and are butt a small creature in a very large world.

     Another aspect of humility is an appreciation of the value of all things, as well as the many different ways that people and things can contribute to our world.

     This characteristic introduces an element of joy and wonder into humility.

     Not only are the humble open to new information but they also appreciate and celebrate the value of that information.

     So with this next characteristic, we're getting to the parts of humility that feel the most transformative.

     I'm pretty sure this element was the most surprising to me at first.

     In particular, the word "accurate" was confusing.

     It really seemed to contradict that common understanding of humility as an underestimation of ourselves.

     However it has been shown again and again that humans have a tendency to overestimate our positive qualities and abilities.

     So we criticize others while ignoring our own faults.

     So perhaps the emphasis on accurate self knowledge is not surprising.

     It is however daunting.

     It is much easier to just see humility as me having to accept that I'm not worth much.

     I actually prefer another perspective on this element that Peterson and slegman offer in their book character strengths and virtues.

     They further refine this to our perspective implies willingness to see the self accurately rather than the absolute aat the same time of accuracy.

     Nonetheless, accuracy is secondary to whether a person is willing and able to weigh information a non defense IV way.

     I like this because it speaks to attitude and habit of mind rather than a preoccupation with how I see myself.

     And part of the reason why Peterson and Seligman can get accuracy a bit of a shrug.

     Like sure.

     Give it a shot.

     It is a good thing.

     Is that probably the most important aspect of humility is stated by tangny thus.

     A relatively low self-focus.

      --

     So yes, be open to being honest with yourself about yourself.

     But more importantly, we can try to just stop thinking about ourselves so much.

     To hesitate before devoting time worrying how others see us, and we see ourselves and so on.

     Tankny quotes this phenomenon as becoming unseveralled.

     This doesn't mean that we devalue ourselves but it means that we shift our attention to others.

     And to quote tangny again.

     Our eyes are opened to the beauty and potential in those around us.

     It means that we start seeing others as more valuable and our perspective on ourselves shifts accordingly.

     And when we start noticing the beauty and value of other, maybe we worry less about defending our own value.

     

     True humility is more like self-forgetfulness.

     Leaves people free to esteem their special talents and with same honest toy esteem their neighborings.

     The neighbors talents and ones own are both recognize as gifts and like ones height are not fit subjects for inordinate pride or self deprecation.

     From our perspective, the two fundamental features as humility can be summarized as accuracy, as opposed to modesty or devaluing.

     And becoming unsellived.

     Encouraging and developing these two habits of mind and self lead to a host of associated behaviors.

     

     So how does this translate into the practice of cultural humility?

     

     >> SARAH: How does it.

     Okay.

     So now that we have some grounding about cultural humility as a concept and the role of humility and culture.

     How can we practically bring that into our every day lives?

     Next we want to share some elements that we've identified in our special report that we did that can help all of us to practice cultural humility.

     

     We start with don't be defensive.

     It is really hard for most, if not all of us.

     When interacting with another person using a cultural humility approach, we want to be other-oriented and focused on them.

     So one way we can do that is bringing active listening skills.

     Which encourage us to listen to the oir person and leave our own emotions and reactions to the side.

     So this actually also means really listening, or truly listening.

     Not maybe half listening while at the same time planning what we're going to say once the other person is done talking.

     Guilty, done that.

     That is not what we're supposed to be doing.

     And when we actively listen to someone, it also reinforces another element of Cultural Humility.

     Which is the idea that we can't know everything.

     Right?

     And we shouldn't really expect to.

     So if we make the assumption that we know what the other person needs before they even tell us, we can miss what they are actually trying to share with us.

     Don't want to do that.

     So initially maybe this doesn't seem too difficult, right?

     Or maybe it does.

     But I think about interactions that I've had that we have probably all had at the reference desk.

     Where the interaction went well.

     I listened.

     I asked questions to clarify what the patron needed and then the patron left happy.

     But we can also think about with the patrons upset or angry with us and seem to be unfairly directing those feelings towards us.

     But hey, we didn't make the policy.

     This is why we need to develop our skills to minimize our defensivenesses.

     

     

     Taking a breath or a pause to reduce the tension.

     >> LORI: You have probably heard "the best defense is a strong offense."  I think that reveals something about the nature of defensiveness.

     When we feel vulnerable we sometimes take what the other person is saying as some kind of attack and respond likewise.

     And when we think of the word "defense" I think we might tend to think of it as something passive or protective, like a wall or armor.

     Which it can be.

     We might feel we're simply protecting ourselves but is often experienced by others as an active attack.

     So really defensive sunset a kind of offense.

     And we don't want to start fights with others.

     I don't think.

     So what can we do?

     Picture.

     >> SARAH: No, probably not.

     So another technique we can try is to bring curiosity to the interaction.

     Thinking about why we might be feeling the way we are in that moment.

     So for me this skill reminds me of part of mindfulness practice, which some of you, a lot of you may be practicing and are already aware of.

     So working on mindfulness involves noticing things.

     Like in your body.

     Your thoughts and your surroundings.

     But without judgment or reaction.

     So using those skills can really help us to truly listen to other people we're interacting with and can help minimize defensiveness.

     To clarify, we aren't suggesting you can't defend yourself in an interaction or that you have to agree with everything another person is saying to you.

     That is not what we're saying.

     Cultural humility is about doing our best to focus on the other person, while minimizing the focus on ourselves.

     Another element of cultural humility practice is working to recognize other perspectives.

     So this can help remind us that our norms aren't necessarily normal for everyone else.

     As we talked about already, David and Lori.

     And we can work on listening to the other person to understand what they are trying to communicate to us.

     I had this experience with my sister for many years.

     She would share something with me.

     And my first thought was let's figure out how to fix this.

     And she eventually told me "I don't want you sometimes to give me things to do, but just listen to me."  So I realize in that moment that she was -- that I was using my own filter to hear what she was saying, rather than focusing on what she was trying to share with me in that moment.

     So I tried to remember that when I talk to patrons, to colleagues and to family.

     That each have a specific need for our interaction and I shouldn't assume I know what it is.

     

     So then we talked about context.

     This aspect of practice includes recognizing the context where this connection is occurring and how these different elements of the context may effect everyone involved and also effect each person in different ways.

     So again, each individual brings their personal culture, identities and experiences.

     When we engage with another person.

     And it is important to allow the other person to share which of those aspects is relevant to our mutual interaction.

     Also, as David talked about some too, the structures, policies and histories of an organization, like a library, can be considered as part of the context of an interaction.

     So cultural humility asks us to engage with that context because it can affect the power dynamics in a situation.

     And ignoring the context can lead to misunderstanding and/or harm.

     So, you know, a student might come up to me at the reference desk and ask for a section on books on healthy communication.

     And they seem in a hurry.

     I honestly might be -- this might be a real story.

     Might be annoyed.

     Because their topic is too broad right?

     And there is not really a section they can browse.

     So we need to spend time figuring out what they need.

     But they also get frustrated with me and leave.

     And then I might assume they don't want to take the time to do the research.

     So my actions might be different though if I understand some of their background.

     Maybe they are a parent.

     They are late.

     They need to get to pick up their child from day care.

     Though I won't always know the back story unless they share with me.

     I can try to bring curiosity to the situation and remember there are lots of reasons why people might be pressed for time.

     And I can offer other ways to work with with them.

     Via I mail or maybe another time even.

     So something just to think about the context and our assumptions.

     And because we're library workers, we're well-situated to learn about other perspectives.

     Because we have easy access to and are surrounded by all kinds of materials that share stories and experiences that are different from our own.

     And we also know how to find accurate information.

     So this is another chance for us to stay curious, get out of our self-focus and pay attention to those unlikely ourselves and to learn about different norms.

     And recognizing other perspectives means we're also willing to accept when our current understandings are wrong and learn new ones.

     And it is particularly important that we strive for accuracy in line with Lori's earlier discussion about the key aspects of humility.

     And one caveat to this element of practice is that we could never really understand what it is like to be in another person's shoes.

     Even someone from a culture we might identify with.

     So it is really better to focus on listening to them and working to understand what they are sharing with us.

     Again, this really is -- might seem difficult, right?

     But another aspect of recognizing other perspectives like Lori kind of mentioning is finding that joy in the process of learning about the history and culture of others.

     And celebrating the many ways people experience the world.

     And then they share it with us.

     I really like Lori's description of this as finding and listening to the stories all around us.

     Whether that is with people in person or through art or the written or spoken word.

     So now even though the practice of cultural humility is about decentering ourselves and perspective, it is still important to take time to reflect on reaction, words, thoughts and feelings.

     So we can take a look at ourselves, think about how we can listen better and appreciate others.

     More fully.

     So we can reflect on ways we can improve our practice and be deliberate with our words and actions.

     Critical self-reflection means an active pause to reconsider.

     And a willingness to be honest with ourselves about ourselves.

     So this could involve reflecting on any assumptions we may have thought do you recollect interaction that may have played a role in how things went.

     It could also be considering any power imbalances present in the interaction and what power you may have had in the moment.

     And while cultural humility asks us to self-reflect we also have to have compassion for ourselves in that process.

     Did I -- in chat?

     >> HOST: We're running a little short right now.

     So you might want to.

     >> LORI: You're good.

     >> SARAH: Should I skip to the end.

     >> LORI: I think this is the a good one.

     And then we'll skip mine.

     Go ahead and finish up with -- yeah.

     >> HOST: Just one last example of cultural humility and practice from the book.

     Sylvia Lynn Hannic and Kelsey Keis.

     And they right about evaluating childrens literature.

     And both were o co chairs of ALA committee rise.

     And they lay out the three principles they use for this work on the committee when they looked at children's books.

     So they were seeking accuracy and completeness.

     They were decentering themselves as readers and recognizing and mitigating power imbalances.

     And they also tell moving stories about selecting books as both librarians and asmore as mothers.

     Here a quote from their section.

     Here a quote from their section

     .

     

     

     In the end we see cultural humility has an approach to making change while reducing harm.

     It gives us some practical techniques for working with each other.

     In all our glorious, infuriating, confusing and wonderful differences.

     And it is relatively simple.

     Right?

     But simple is not easy.

     And cultural humility is work.

     But we're at work and we believe in what we do.

     It has meaning and value.

     And we want to make our libraries welcoming spaces, full of energy and learning and joy for everyone.

     And of course the road, path ahead is long and full of challenges so we might as well remain friends along the way.

     And we think cultural humility can help us do that.

     So...   here is our image credits.

     

     And references which will be part of the page.

     And links and everything will be on there too.

     But thank you.

     

     >> HOST: Wow.

     Thank you.

     Thank you so much.

     So much information in there.

     So many wonderful conversations going on in chat.

     Some interesting questions around how maybe demeanor and mannerisms are culturally different and how to address.

     There are people saying that, you know, when I'm being told that I'm being too direct.

     Or maybe another person said that as a woman their male coworkers tell them that they need to be more assertive.

     So I'm curious if you have any comments on that, sort of...   I mean you know, we don't think about that as being a "culture" piece.

     You know, so how can we sort of use cultural humility to understand that more?

     Any thoughts on that?

     

     >> LORI: I guess for me as someone who is a direct person.

     I was reading about directness being perceived as...   making people defensive.

     Right?

     And I have experienced that.

     And I think that -- and as someone who is sort of neurotic.

     I also have a tendency to get into reflecting maybe a little bit too much on stuff that's happened.

     And I think that we all have our -- you know, and that is informed by me as an individual, my own cultural context.

     So I do think that one of the things is really important about cultural humility is recognizing the power in the situation and where that power lies.

     Because you -- you know, when you have more power, you probably want to be more in listening mode.

     When you have less power in a situation, then you can really, you know, stand up and push on those who are more powerful.

     So I do think that that does matter when you think of cultural humility.

     At least that is just my perspective.

     Sarah and David?

     

     >> SARAH: I think David was going to say something but maybe not.

     >> DAVID: I can.

     Umm...

     No.

     Because I think -- yeah, I think that's exactly right.

     What Lori was saying.

     And I also want to emphasize, you know, this is something to work on for yourself.

     And not, you know, hey you need to be more culturally humble.

     That's...   even if they do.

     And maybe they do.

     But it is not -- this isn't something that, you know, should be weaponized.

     This is something that you can control for yourself.

     And again, it is not the only too, right?

     So you can approach your work and your life with cultural humility.

     But that doesn't mean...   that doesn't mean there aren't other things that you are doing to make the change that needs to be made.

     Does that make sense?

     >> HOST: Yeah and that ties in.

     The other piece like people were talk about regional differences.

     Or, you know, internally.

     Internal staff differences.

     So I think recognizing that -- I mean, this isn't about patrons versus staff.

     Certainly we all have -- I mean I would say it would be maybe important to maybe have a discussion internally about what you have learned here.

     Or, you know, use the learner guide to bring this topic to an internal conversation.

     I just want to tell one little story that someone shared with me in chat.

     Because I think this is a helpful reminder that the context matters and the assumptions we make.

     And how we -- I mean, I do believe that we as library staff need to build this intentionality.

     You know we need to take the steps to think about these interactions more.

     So the patron -- someone said a patron got upset because she was given a local museum pass that had the information printed on it in Spanish.

     It was the last pass they had available to check out.

     The patron assumed that the staff member serving her made an assumption about her language skills because she was not a native English speaker.

     And she was offended.

     So once it was explained that it was the only pass we had available, she understood the situation.

     So the context made all the difference.

     So I thought that was a perfect example.

     

     In terms of how subtle it can be really and the assumptions that we make.

     Or the assumptions -- or the thinking that we don't -- the intentionality that we don't place before we give that lack of context.

     

     >> DAVID: I love that one too.

     We could spend another 7 hours talking about microaggressions and things.

     Right?

     And this is one where there is no ill intent from the library staff.

     But it is perceived a certain way.

     And the real problem with microaggressions is that each individual one is like, no no no, that's not what it was.

     You are misinterpreting it.

     And that itself, you know, even in that situation was like okay, I understand it's the last one.

     But that in itself is also a problem.

     And so sort of being able to understand why this person gets upset over this minor thing is because it is not just this minor thing.

     >> Absolutely.

     >> LORI: I was going try to in a small way address a question asked earlier about something to do with time cards.

     And somebody having two jobs and this kind of thing.

     I guess from my perspective on that is that, that is where I think curiosity would probably be...   and not in a pushy way.

     But trying to, sort of, harness a sense of curiosity abouti about why this is happening.

     But also because we do work in Os that have requirements of us that we have to meet.

     And we can work to change those requirements if we find them problematic.

     And I know that, you know, we have tried do that in our own university.

     We've tried to do that with with from bigger smaller things.

     How you're recruiting.

     How do you treat them when coming to seek employment.

     Kinds of questions.

     What are you doing.

     It could be small or big things.

     But when it comes to that workplace problem for me, it is that sense of like being curious about something.

     And I wouldn't necessarily say that it is always an element of culture.

     Right?

     Like this person, you know, might just be struggling in their life.

     And that might not be cultural.

     That could just be -- and in in fact sort of saying that it is cultural could be problematic.

     Because you might be attributing something to their culture which is something that is actually just happening for them as an individual at this time.

     So I do think that for me like I said the curiosity.

     I do think that is just hard though.

     Right?

     Because sometimes people just aren't able to meet their responsibilities in a workplace.

     And it is nothing to do necessarily with the cultural humility.

     Although deal with them in a culturally humble way means you can be gentle with each other and maintain good relations.

     I don't know if Sarah or David has anything else to add?

     >> HOST: I was actually going to pop in with.

     Somebody did ask a question of me to ask you.

     Was how you started working with cultural humility.

     And to tag it with another question somebody said.

     You know, what do we do when we see, you know, things happening that maybe are offensive to a group of people?

     Is it our job to teach cultural humility?

     And I know you all have made -- you all have worked together to pull together this amazing book on the topic.

     So obviously you are interested in teaching cultural humility.

     But maybe kind of in the context how you came to it.

     Can we just wrap up maybe?

     And obviously how you found ways to practically apply to it your work.

     You have done so.

     So...

     Big question.

     And we are at the top of the hour.

     So...

     >> HOST: Well we have our story about how we started --

     [ Laughter ]

      -- I don't want to be plugging that but.

     David was the one that brought it to us.

     >> DAVID: Yeah.

     And basically a very quickly.

     And this is one that in the special report we have a lot of sort of these stories of where it intersected with our lives.

     Basically I was in between library jobs working for a different organization.

     They were noticing that population they wanted to serve didn't match the population of their membership.

     And suggested a diversity training.

     And the one non white person on the board just said no.

     Please, can we not do that.

     And suggested cultural humility as an at. alternative.

     So that is how it was introduced to me.

     I think the question whose job is it to teach cultural humility?

     That is a really important one that I'm going to late Lori or Sarah take.

     

     >> LORI: It's no one's job.

     I don't know.

     >> HOST: It's ev

     >> SARAH: It's everyone's job.

     And somebody did ask is it only for dominant cultures?

     And no.

     It is for all of us.

     We all have different experiences and different perspectives.

     And I've gone school and don't live in my community anymore.

     And that is different folks who have stayed there.

     So it is a very different perspective.

     So -- because I already know about my open people.

     We're all different.

     So yeah it is not just for that.

     And we also have like a section where we say is this just for white people?

     And it is not.

     Spoiler.

     It is not.

     But it is for all of us.

     I don't know if that --

     >> DAVID: Just want to borrow Lori's language.

     It is not necessarily your job to teach somebody cultural humility.

     It is your job to.

     >> LORI: Practice it.

     Demonstrate it.

     >> DAVID: Practice it.

     And with kindness.

     Right.

     >> LORI: Yeah.

     >> DAVID: And again, there are some situations where maybe kindness isn't what is called for.

     There are some situations that are extreme.

     >> LORI: Yep.

     >> DAVID: But it is coming with that expectation.

     And going back one more topic.

     Like, just because you are from England doesn't mean you get to drive on the left side of the road in the U.S.

     Right?

     

     >> SARAH: Exactly.

     Yeah.

     >> DAVID: So there are some things.

     But you can recognize oh it makes sense.

     And let's have a conversation so you understand actually that it is different.

     >> LORI: Yeah.

     And also if driving on the left side of the road is harmful in some way to a group of people, then in fact take that on and advocate for change.

     So it can be something like that where it is just like yeah either/Orr.

     And you can just adjust.

     Or it can be no no, you are actively harming people with this practice, so we need to figure how we can push for change.

     >> HOST: Help.

     Well we are ready to wrap up here.

     Thank you so much David, Sarah and Lori.

     Wonderful time spent here.

     Lots and lots to keep thinking about.

     We encourage folks to follow up with the learner guide and bring this conversation to your team.

     I'll send an e-mail later today once the recording is posting and automatically send you a certificate for participating today.

     And in a note I'm going send you as a survey as you leave.

     If you don't have time 20 complete it now, the link will also be in the e-mail I sent you.

     But we really appreciate your feedback.

     And helps us guide our ongoing programming.

     Thanks so much.

     Thanks to our captioner.

     And WJ support.

     Everyone have a great rays of your week.

     Thank you so much.

     

     Of.

     >> Thanks everybody.

     >> Thank you.

     
	
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